Suggestions For Flotilla 2

[OnionX]

Flotilla is a good game, but I think it could be improved in many ways. Here is one idea for Flotilla 2. My focus here is on muliplayer, and maybe I'll get into single player some other time if there is interest.

1) Multiplayer. I'd keep the turn based nature, with an orders phase followed by a watching phase. The amount of time for orders would be a base time plus more time for each ship.
2) Customizable ships. In a manner similar to Gratuitous Space Battles or Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, ships would be designed outside of battle. Each ship would have a cost based on its chassis and components, and you could only field additional ships up to a certain cost. You should also be allowed to choose the maximum cost which will be allowed in a fight when setting up a multiplayer game.
3) No more invulnerability on certain sides of ships. Instead, ship components would include shields, armor, and repair systems, in addition to weapons, engines, and others.
4) Ship classes: corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, etc. Each ship class should have some system unique to it to make it useful so just always selecting the biggest ships is not a winning strategy.

Those are the basic, core ideas. Especially number 2. Some other ideas I have which I think would be cool are below. However, adding these would need to be balanced with keeping the game simple and playable.

1) Weight. Ships have weight based on chassis and components, which would affect acceleration.
2) Energy. Ships would have either a set energy generation or power plants could be a component, or both. Ships that are using more energy than they are generating would not be able to do things as quickly, such as attacking or regenerating shields.
2b) Energy management. During the time when you give orders, giving players the option of directing where energy is going, whether to weapons, engines, defense, etc.
3) Component Targeting. Individual components could be targeted, allowing one to disable a ship's engines or a particular weapon.
4) Destructible sub sections. Each ship would be composed of various pieces. If a given section of the ship takes enough damage, that entire section along with all its components explodes. Because honestly, is there anything cooler than ships blowing up in pieces during the fight?
5) Detailed individual ship management. This one could be too complicated, especially if one is allowed to bring in a lot of ships to a fight. A simple version be assigning ship priority to or attack, defense, or engines. More complicated would be being able to turn on or off individual components (to focus energy where it is needed), or choosing repair priority.
6) Shield direction. Allows one to change shields to be to the front, back, or side during the orders phase.
7) Textures. Can't hurt to ask, right? This is a pretty minor point though.
8) Mobile OSes. Turn based games are a perfect fit for mobile OSes, since when you have as much time as you need to line everything up, the general problem of more difficult controls on phones or tablets becomes much less of an issue.

I would also suggest multiplayer which is, perhaps, 5 v 5 (or larger). Each player gets one ship. This would make it much easier to manage sub systems for the ship. Modes could include death match or protect the base. A mode similar to DOTA or League of Legends could possibly be implemented, but that would be more complicated (though very cool). Free for all battles or battles with uneven numbers of teams could work too, but there needs to be something to make everyone fight. For example, maybe it is whoever does the most damage + has the most health after a certain amount of time, or perhaps king of the hill, or some other way to get everyone fighting so you don't have the problem of no one wanting to be first.

This is my first post here, and I'd be very happy for feedback, comments, or suggestions. Thanks.

[Brendon]

Hi Bob,

I've put some thought into a followup to Flotilla, and your thoughts certainly have overlap with mine. Multiplayer is something I want to focus on. I think the gameplay would support that quite well.

In regards to customizability, my other goal would be to make the game as data-driven as possible (let people edit the game data). I've learned from Atom Zombie Smasher that while making a game data-driven results in more extra work, it ultimately does speed up the development process, and also gives users something they really enjoy.

I also agree with the general idea of applying various systems to a ship - not so much for the micromanagement aspect, but for the resulting interplay between all the systems. Such as, how a ship behaves when a critical system is damaged, or how the targeting system is affected when the ship moves through a Fribulan gas cloud.

Of course, this all hinges on whether I ever get around to making this game!

[OnionX]

Brendon -

Thanks for the response. If I were interested in developing such a game, could you suggest how to get started? What engine did you use to build Flotilla?

[Pin0]

followup... :(

I wish you would add extra characters/random-events to the original game D:

[Brendon]

I used the XNA framework to make Flotilla. For Air Forte and Atom Zombie Smasher, I used a library called SFML (http://www.sfml-dev.org).

Though, I wouldn't quite call them engines. Both XNA & SFML provide low-level audio/graphics support, but it's up to you to write the engine itself & all the gameplay code. It all depends on how comfortable you are with programming.

[CozzyC0]

My only reccommendations to an otherwise brilliant game would be thus:

1. An unlimited mode. I understand there is only a finite number of planets and encounters. But either an unlimited mode or extended (beyond harcore mode) verison.
2. The abilty to change ships names and buy ships rather than just encountering them :)
3. Modability.

Other than those three, possible issues then this is fantastic and even better considering the price tag.

[LawTalkingGuy]

My suggestions for Flotilla 2:

First, the things to be improved from Flotilla:

1) More variability with the start: always starting with 2 destroyers gets boring, especially as games are short so you'll play the start a lot. Maybe randomize the starting ships?
2) Some way to bring every fight to decisive action: occasionally fights go very long (> 6 minutes) with neither side getting rear or bottom hits. There needs to be some way that tends to limit the length of the fight.
3) Collision warning: warn the user when they've plotted a course that will result in a collision with an asteroid/space debris/your other ships.

Second things to add to the sequel:

1) More ships and gun types: more is better!
2) Ablative armor: front, top and side armor would slow degrade as they take hits. With enough pounding the armor would be eventually be worn away. Would make the projectile shooter on the battleships much more useful.
3) Shields: like ablative armor, but all around the ship and slowly regenerates.
4) Buying ships and mods: obviously this requires money of some kind (salvage from fights?) but this would give more flexibility to get the things you want to play with. Of course, what's in the stores might be random.
5) A better ending: The seven month limit is fine, but the "you die/game over" ending is a let down. The ending should be something more space opera heroic. Maybe an invasion of mutant space llamas from another dimension that you have to fight to save the universe? :)

[flap]

Hello,

That's interresting, because if as OnionX I see some potential for a "Flotilla 2", I would focus on entirelly different things :
His expectations are mostly on more complex ships. While, I do really like the way it is : very basic.

However, I see 2 fields where it could be pushed further.

- The exploration.
------------------
Correct me if I am wrong, but at present time, I really feel that exploration is entirelly random : I can't forecast what type of encounter I will when I see a planet. And I fell that the game would take a new tactical dimention, if we could have some hints on what expect.
Games which did that are Minesweeper, Oasis ( http://www.oasisgame.com/ ), or even Dungeon Desktop (you don't know what to expect, but once a monster has been found, you can choose when to hit it).

How to do that ? I see 4 things. (Don't hit me if it is already the cause... But it hasn't been that obivous to me) :
- Star colour. Some encounters might only happend in some type of stars, or be more likely
- Depth. Encouters could be limited (or more likely) to a range of distance from your origin
- Link with encounter : following an encounter, one other planet (with a specific rule to decide which : one of the neighbourg, the closest red star,...) receives a flag triggering another encounter.
- Situation with other planets. For exemple a red star surrounded by 3 yellow stars, or whatever else.

But also, most important, flotilla is a casual game. So a least some information should be displayed to the player (otherwise it could look just like a big random mess). You won the karaoké ? Then you hear the rumor that someone is angry at you, and the 3 neighbouring planets display that there is the risk to meet and angry pinguin there.

Add a little bit of modding to that, and we might see interresting things.

- The fights.
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So far, fights are basic : a fight to death between 2 teams. Even if I really like the basic desing, we could add some complexity there :
- Add more teams. Depending one you behaviour in the fight, the result of the encounter would be different. For exemple you enter in a fight between cats and deers. You have 4 choices : do nothing an watch, protect the cats and kill the deers, protect the deers and kill the cats, kill everybody.

- Add other outcome that just killing everybody : The end of a fight could trigger when a ship has docked with a base, when a ship has escaped (that is, is at a given distance from every other enemy ship), when a specific ship is destroyed, or maybe when any team (including you) decides to surrender.

- Also I have always loved space game where you have a scanner and have to find THE ship that you have to destroy (or protect, or board ?).

With these few elements, it could increase the variety of situations.

[jbanks]

I agree with CozzyC0 and flap.

The simplicity on Flotilla is the brilliance, and the best improvement I could see would be the addition of an unlimited mode.

[acdebega]

Rather than just 1v1, I would like to see some 2v2 or 3v3 free-for-all, or huge colossal space battles between factions.

Something to think about.

[AhrenJB]

OnionX,

While your suggestions might have their place in some game, I do not believe they are appropriate for Flotilla.

While playing Flotilla, I've come to appreciate it as a genuinely special game. It's unique, and over time I've begun to think of it along the lines of space chess.

Each piece on the board has very distinct capabilities, very clear cut strengths and weaknesses. There is an appropriate and an inappropriate way to use each piece.

If you use a type of piece wrong, it will either accomplish nothing at all, or be destroyed rather quickly. Usually both.

Understanding the subtleties and strategies applicable to each piece is a large part of the key to success.

The other most important aspects are being able to predict to some degree the next move of your enemy, and carefully considering every aspect of each pieces move to both put them in a position to do damage to the enemy while also preserving themselves.

Having sides of the ships be entirely immune to fire is very, very important to maintaining this dynamic and I would strongly advise against removing it from the game. Same goes for customization of ships. I would much rather see specialization, with each ship having a distinct best way of being played and clear cut capabilities, no nonsense. Knowing when to flank, when to attack move, and when to focus fire are just as important.

The simplicity is in fact what contributes to the complexity and deep strategy of this game.

If anything, the only changes I would like to see in Flotilla 2 should such a game come to exist, are as follows.

- A couple more varieties of ships, not many however. Just enough to round out the strategy a little bit.
- Multiplayer so that I can play space chess against my friends. I would like to see options allowing for different numbers and overall firepower of ships, time limits on turns, etc. Make it so that depending on game preference, players can choose their own fleets, starting positions ( A la battleship), or so that each player is given identical fleets and layouts.
- More options for single player games, and a somewhat larger universe. This way players could do long games, short games, start with different capabilities, etc. Keep a couple standard game modes however for the sake of ranked ladder play, no need to confuse rankings with so many options.
- Maybe a little indicator for what kind of enemies you'll be facing in a fight in single player. Maybe not specifics, but even a ship count would do.


I don't want subsystems, I don't want a complex galactic trade, I certainly don't want to make ship stats outrageously complicated and requiring micromanagement. As was stated, the simplicity is the brilliance and aspects such as invulnerable sides, fire arcs, and ships with very distinct abilities make the game what it is. I would hate to see it any other way. Give me a well rounded space chess I can play locally or only with friends, and you'll have my money. I would reasonably pay $20 for a game like that. Currently the best strategy games I have for going up against my more strategy minded and intellectual friends are Total War and R.U.S.E, but these have their limitations, and a turn based space chess like described would overshadow them all. Flotilla two could potentially take up way too much of our time.

Thanks for taking the time to review. I love your game, and would love nothing more than to see a logical progression of it rather than a saddening change in direction.

[Galaxion]

I gotta say, I support the above post a lot.

However, I have some suggestions of my own, too:

1. Multiplayer would be pretty awesome.
2. I think there are too many beam ships. Maybe adding another projectile ship or, for example, changing the Dreadnought's cannons to Destroyer cannons, would balance the two general ship types. Besides, the Beam Gunship and the Dreadnought are practically the same thing, you know?
3. I think adventures should be longer overall and there should be higher chances for adding ships to your fleet, because sometimes I've played like 15 minute adventures and still have my two destroyers.

So yeah, that's about it for me.
Also, just out of curiosity, are the bots in the game SUPPOSED to like, flip upside down and right side up again all the time? I can't do that and it makes me sad D:

[Brendon]

@Galaxion -

Yup, a wider variety of ships/weapons would be something I'd like to do.

You certainly CAN do the flippy flip stuff that the AI does! When setting up your ship orientation angle, there's a button on the lower-left that lets you go into Manual control mode - you can manually set the yaw, pitch, and roll of your ship.

[Galaxion]

@Brendon

I never knew that... Is it possible on the X360 version of the game, too?

[Brendon]

Yup. Just look at the lower-left corner for a "Manual mode" button prompt.

[wildcard]

I like the simplicity of Flotilla it's not like Eve or other space combat games Id like to keep the base simplicity at least but it could use a few thing
-Endless mode
-Being able to name and paint your ships in Endless Mode
-More ships in combat
-More orientations/different orientation abilities for different ships
-Story mode
And maybe perhaps......An Ender's game tactical school mode?

[javifer]

I think flotilla is great as it is, but i definitely would add momentum to ships movemet, so you dont completely change the direction as free as its now, the bigger the ship the harder to turn.

but i have to agree that multiplayer, shields or destructible sections (like breaking weaponry, reducing speed, and such) sounds reaaaally cool

[Iron Domokun]

OnionX wrote:
"No more invulnerability on certain sides of ships."
I like it that way. Forces players to fly their flotilla as a flotilla, not a collection of individual ships. Now that I've gotten the hang of the game, it's a great idea.

"4) Ship classes: corvettes, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, etc. Each ship class should have some system unique to it to make it useful so just always selecting the biggest ships is not a winning strategy."

I'm not convinced that picking the biggest ships is a winning strategy now. I've figured out how to spank flotillas of two battleships using only the same number of destroyers, at least against a computer player. BBs and DNs may have awesome armour but they move and maneuver slowly. Flank one and you're scoring damage.